Episode 20: From Scrubs to Stethoscopes - A Nurse's Odyssey

September 05, 2023

Tune in for an extraordinary journey through the heart of healthcare on the More Than Just a Doctor Podcast I am thrilled to introduce our very first guest, a nursing powerhouse and dear friend, Amanda Biondi. Her career is a testament to the remarkable paths that healthcare professionals can traverse, and she shares her unique and inspiring story with us. In this episode, Amanda takes us on a captivating tour of her career, delving into its pinnacle moments and the challenges that have profoundly shaped her.

Join us as we reminisce about the story of our initial meeting in the world of healthcare, as well as sharing some laughter as we reminisce about the camaraderie that develops amidst the challenges we face in this demanding field. Amanda’s story paints a heartfelt vision of the future, one that's bound to kindle your aspirations and wanderlust. Her dreams inspire us to dream big and explore the world, even after a rewarding career in healthcare.

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https://app.acuityscheduling.com/schedule.php?owner=17659837

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www.loveyourlifemd.com

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Episode Transcript

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Welcome to The More than

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Just a Doctor Podcast.

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I’m your host, Lil Surprenant MD.

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I’m a life coach for physicians,

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a practicing

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hospitalist, a wife, a mom of two boys,

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a reader, a dancer, a dolphin enthusiast,

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and all the things

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just like me.

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You’re more than just a doctor.

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And that’s what we’re

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going to talk about each week.

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Doctor stuff regular life stuff

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and all the things that make life rich

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and interesting.

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I’m so glad you’re here.

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Let’s get started.

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Let’s get started.

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Hello, friends.

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Thank you for coming to episode number 20

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of the More than Just a Doctor podcast.

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Today I have a special treat.

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First time ever guest.

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This is my great friend Amanda Biondi.

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Hey everybody!

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She, I'm going to let her

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also tell you about herself.

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But she is a nurse who has had a very

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varied and interesting career.

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And we're going to talk about

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some of that today.

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She's also my friend from the town

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where my dad grew

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up, a little tiny town in South Carolina.

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And I want to tell people

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quick the story of the day,

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like how we met

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and how you lured me to Rover.

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Okay. Okay.

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So this is years ago

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like seven, eight, nine.

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Maybe that was a long time ago.

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Maybe nine years. Yeah, a long time ago.

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So I'm coming to Charleston

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to get married, basically,

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and look for a hospitalist job.

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And at the time, in one of Amanda's

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multiple iterations in her career,

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she was hospitalist, like, manager,

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director of, like, the nursing stuff.

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And so I come for the interview

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and I met her and I was like, oh, my God,

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she's so cool.

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We hit it off.

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Lafon Darlington,

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you know, all, all the things.

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And then she picked me up

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and her Volvo station

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wagon piece of junk and took me

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and we're happiest clams

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riding over to the other hospital

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and her system.

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And I'm like, yay,

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I also met Jessica O'Reilly,

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I think, on that interview,

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who I also love and Jessica's back.

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But I'm like, okay, I'm sold, you know?

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And then I come back.

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You know, it

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takes forever to get a doctor job.

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And by the time I come back, six

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or seven months later, to take the job,

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you have disappeared.

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I was already gone,

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total bait and switch.

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That's right.

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But eventually I got you back anyway.

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Right? Right. Lured me back.

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It all worked out in the end.

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It all worked out? Yeah.

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So

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tell me a little bit about.

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I was just thinking through your career,

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and I'm like,

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I bet I'm missing some things

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because what I know and so correct

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if I’m me wrong,

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you started as a BNU nurse.

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Is that right? Oh, that's right. Yeah.

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Psychiatric

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for those

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who are not in the know

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what BMU is behavioral medicine.

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The patients were

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had a psychiatric diagnosis,

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but were also fairly

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medically sick as well.

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Yes. Yes.

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And then you got snatched up

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by the hospitalists?

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That's right.

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They that was a new concept at the time.

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Y’all this is a long time ago.

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Been a nurse for 20 years.

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But the health care system

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that we work for

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did not have a hospitalist program.

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And so at one point

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they contracted someone

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and they were great

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and they decided, hey,

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wait a second,

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we should just own the practice.

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So when they started that practice,

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they asked me to sort of move

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into a coordination

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role for the clinical piece,

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which I absolutely loved.

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To this day,

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I still say it was my favorite job

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I've ever had.

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I loved it.

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Yeah, you're a great fit for that.

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Like Super

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Amanda is super

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great clinically.

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And like also with this

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very practical bit

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from a clinical standpoint, which is what

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you must have

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to be a hospitalist person, absolutely.

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And then you also have which I'm curious

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if you knew you had it

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or you figured it out

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after you got the job.

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You also have a very

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organized like you

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have sort of an operations brain

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for sure.

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Did you know you had that before

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you took the job or.

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Um no, and I always

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now I call myself

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a reluctant administrator

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because I never set out in health

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care to be in any kind of leadership role

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or any kind of administration position.

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And I thought that I would just

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go to the hospital and work

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three shifts a week,

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and that was it,

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you know, And then one day I'd retire.

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But unfortunately,

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that's not what happened.

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I mean, fortunately or unfortunately,

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that's not what happened.

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But I didn't realize

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I've always been organized.

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I went to college

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on a leadership scholarship.

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You know, I did not know that, that I did

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I did nerd alert and I.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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That's not that's not a secret.

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Oh, but, yeah,

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I had no idea that I was so good

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at programmatic development, I guess.

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Right from until I got into it.

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You know, I'm a problem solver.

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And that's really what

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programmatic development

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is, is just solving problems.

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Plus, I grew up immersed in health care.

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I'm the third generation

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person

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in my family to do public health.

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So I lived in that world.

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I grew up in that world of how

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to solve these kinda problems.

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And, you know, my dad

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practiced rural medicine

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and I watched him my whole life.

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So I like that problem solving

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aspect of the of the job, for sure.

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Yeah. Okay.

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Now now the the next piece of the puzzle.

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When she left me before I really arrived.

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But I mean,

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this is really

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a cool part of your career story.

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Yeah.

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So hospitalist director and I think

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that role really grew.

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Over how many years did you do that

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for the hospital?

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I think I was there

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for about seven years.

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I did that role

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and sort of did a hybrid of that role.

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And then my next role

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when that came to fruition.

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But yeah, for seven years

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I was with the hospitalist.

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Okay, so then tell everybody

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what the next thing was.

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Another big iteration.

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Yeah, a huge, huge iteration.

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You know, part of

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if anyone out there in listening

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land is in the hospitalist world,

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they know that length of stay

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and readmission

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rates are metrics that we have to

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pay attention to. Right.

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And part of my role

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in the clinical coordination

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was to keep patients

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from coming back to the hospital.

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And what I found was that we didn't

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have a way to do that

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in the Lowcountry

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because we're certainly not

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in our health care system, because

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there's not enough access

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to care in this area.

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And we are well,

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we the the hospital system

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that we worked for at

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the time

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was the only not for profit

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one in the community.

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And so I just started thinking like,

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what if the hospitalist,

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there was a large number of them?

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What if they saw patients

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in some sort of follow up capacity

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after they were hospitalized?

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Perhaps that could keep them from coming,

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keep the patient

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from being rehospitalized

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or utilizing the emergency department

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in a way

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that it didn't need to be utilized.

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And I thought that was like

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the best idea I'd ever had. Right.

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And so I went to the powers

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that be and they were like,

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maybe.

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And then

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I went to the hospitalists

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and they said, Heck

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no, we're hospitalists for a reason.

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We don't want to see patients

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in the outpatient world.

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Why would we do that?

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We're hospitalists and I was like, okay,

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But the stars had aligned

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and there were some primary care docs

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in that

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in the system that wanted to retire,

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but not fully.

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And so they kind of sat on a wing

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and a prayer like halfway through a year.

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Okay, we'll let these guys like

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three days a week

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y’all can see patients

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that are discharged

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from the hospitalists service.

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We'll just see how it goes.

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Like in the morning,

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I would do my hospitalist job

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and then I'd walk

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across the street to the clinic

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and try to get it set up.

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And in the first like three months,

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we had prevented

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just so many readmissions

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and ED utilization

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from patients that were enrolled

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dropped by like 90%.

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And so, yeah.

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And so the hospital system went

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hang on a minute,

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she might be on to something here

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so that I was allowed to do it

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for five days a week.

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And that grew into a massive multi

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functional primary and preventative

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care clinic for the underserved.

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We did not

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charge patients a dime

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who didn't have any insurance or money.

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We used our charitable funds.

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I fundraised

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for that millions of dollars

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to support that endeavor,

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and we just started taking care of people

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and it grew into a large clinic

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that still exists today.

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Although I don't run it anymore,

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it's still going strong,

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and I feel like that

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probably creating that clinic

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in that area of town

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where there was a huge need,

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it was probably my

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crowning jewel of my career doing that.

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And then when the pandemic hit,

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I remember to ask you about that.

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Y'all remember the pandy

00:10:09:22 - 00:10:12:04
the here and now.

00:10:12:04 - 00:10:12:16
Yeah.

00:10:12:16 - 00:10:14:02
And somewhere in this chaotic

00:10:14:02 - 00:10:17:24
mix of things, I somehow convince Lil

00:10:17:24 - 00:10:20:09
to come and work at the clinic for

00:10:20:09 - 00:10:21:03
for me.

00:10:21:03 - 00:10:22:17
To see those patients

00:10:22:17 - 00:10:24:04
she used to see in the hospital

00:10:24:04 - 00:10:25:19
to see them in the clinic

00:10:25:19 - 00:10:26:07
and help me

00:10:26:07 - 00:10:27:11
prevent those readmissions

00:10:27:11 - 00:10:29:24
and help me decrease the utilization

00:10:29:24 - 00:10:30:14
in the E.R.

00:10:30:14 - 00:10:31:14
And I think we had a lot of

00:10:31:14 - 00:10:33:24
we had a lot of fun doing it for sure.

00:10:33:24 - 00:10:35:15
Yes. Yeah.

00:10:35:15 - 00:10:36:15
It's like

00:10:36:15 - 00:10:38:06
but I got to have an office, like,

00:10:38:06 - 00:10:39:22
next to you, like, yeah,

00:10:39:22 - 00:10:42:18
absolutely have to go and go to work.

00:10:42:18 - 00:10:43:14
Yeah.

00:10:43:14 - 00:10:44:17
And then

00:10:44:17 - 00:10:47:00
the day that seared into my brain

00:10:47:00 - 00:10:48:01
for all of eternity

00:10:48:01 - 00:10:50:11
on March 16th of 2020,

00:10:50:11 - 00:10:53:04
the CEO at the time of the company

00:10:53:04 - 00:10:54:11
I worked for

00:10:54:11 - 00:10:55:04
squatted down

00:10:55:04 - 00:10:56:09
next to me at a meeting

00:10:56:09 - 00:10:57:10
full of 500 people,

00:10:57:10 - 00:11:00:10
our leadership meeting, and said, Hey,

00:11:00:13 - 00:11:01:22
that was a Wednesday

00:11:01:22 - 00:11:03:23
in case anyone recalls.

00:11:03:23 - 00:11:07:18
I said, Hey could on Monday, let's let's.

00:11:07:18 - 00:11:08:19
We need to do a drive

00:11:08:19 - 00:11:09:14
thru COVID

00:11:09:14 - 00:11:11:08
19 testing site in the parking

00:11:11:08 - 00:11:12:14
lot of your clinic.

00:11:12:14 - 00:11:15:03
Can you just set that up

00:11:15:05 - 00:11:16:23
now?

00:11:16:23 - 00:11:17:10
Yeah.

00:11:17:10 - 00:11:18:23
So that was a Wednesday,

00:11:18:23 - 00:11:22:22
and 96 hours later I opened a drive

00:11:22:22 - 00:11:23:07
thru COVID

00:11:23:07 - 00:11:24:11
testing site

00:11:24:11 - 00:11:27:11
that tested over 100,000 people.

00:11:27:13 - 00:11:29:02
That is so insane people.

00:11:29:02 - 00:11:31:01
I just want to give you a visual.

00:11:31:01 - 00:11:33:17
This this is not a giant parking

00:11:33:17 - 00:11:35:02
lot of like this,

00:11:35:02 - 00:11:37:15
you know, a multi story building.

00:11:37:15 - 00:11:38:21
It's like a standalone.

00:11:38:21 - 00:11:41:09
It used to be back in the day,

00:11:41:09 - 00:11:42:21
it used to be an urgent care,

00:11:42:21 - 00:11:43:18
you know, a standalone urgent care.

00:11:43:18 - 00:11:45:24
So it's got like one little opening

00:11:45:24 - 00:11:48:24
and maybe 20 parking spots

00:11:48:24 - 00:11:51:02
total maybe actually

00:11:51:02 - 00:11:53:06
not even that many, not even. Yeah.

00:11:53:06 - 00:11:54:11
And no way really

00:11:54:11 - 00:11:56:24
for people to turn around.

00:11:56:24 - 00:11:58:14
Yes. No I'll uh yeah.

00:11:58:14 - 00:12:00:14
Only one entrance. Right.

00:12:00:14 - 00:12:02:06
So you get your picture

00:12:02:06 - 00:12:04:10
this a hundred thousand,

00:12:04:10 - 00:12:05:05
100,000 people

00:12:05:05 - 00:12:06:09
before it was all said and done.

00:12:06:09 - 00:12:06:19
Right

00:12:06:19 - 00:12:09:01
and while the clinic was still going.

00:12:09:01 - 00:12:09:11
Correct.

00:12:09:11 - 00:12:11:15
So the clinic still went and that

00:12:11:17 - 00:12:13:18
was the clinic was still going on inside.

00:12:13:18 - 00:12:15:00
Our primary, preventative care

00:12:15:00 - 00:12:16:19
services, mental health services,

00:12:16:19 - 00:12:18:17
all of the things are going inside.

00:12:18:17 - 00:12:19:24
Our ambulance services

00:12:19:24 - 00:12:20:20
ran out of the back.

00:12:20:20 - 00:12:22:00
And in the meantime,

00:12:22:00 - 00:12:23:09
we were swabbing people

00:12:23:09 - 00:12:24:11
seven days a week.

00:12:24:11 - 00:12:25:14
I think I,

00:12:25:14 - 00:12:26:13
I think at one point

00:12:26:13 - 00:12:27:09
I counted that

00:12:27:09 - 00:12:31:17
I worked 500 days in a row,

00:12:31:19 - 00:12:33:08
500 days in a row. Yeah.

00:12:33:08 - 00:12:35:18
So

00:12:35:18 - 00:12:38:08
that was my COVID experience.

00:12:38:08 - 00:12:40:16
I just to hear because, you know, it's

00:12:40:16 - 00:12:41:21
it's been a minute, but like,

00:12:41:21 - 00:12:42:06
just to hear

00:12:42:06 - 00:12:42:23
you talk about it

00:12:42:23 - 00:12:44:13
again, like I'm getting like

00:12:44:13 - 00:12:45:21
tightened up in the chest,

00:12:45:21 - 00:12:48:05
like just feel like feeling like

00:12:48:05 - 00:12:50:23
that shit was so stressful.

00:12:50:23 - 00:12:52:17
It was the most stressful thing.

00:12:52:17 - 00:12:53:19
And I just knew about it

00:12:53:19 - 00:12:54:05
a little bit

00:12:54:05 - 00:12:56:22
because I was there for half of it.

00:12:56:22 - 00:12:59:09
But I when I think that people know

00:12:59:09 - 00:13:03:00
you're organizing the drive thru swab,

00:13:03:02 - 00:13:05:09
you are just like that is

00:13:05:09 - 00:13:06:10
and I'm not,

00:13:06:10 - 00:13:06:20
you know,

00:13:06:20 - 00:13:08:21
like I'm not a lab technician, right?

00:13:08:21 - 00:13:09:17
I didn't,

00:13:09:17 - 00:13:13:11
I didn't like, I didn't know anything.

00:13:13:13 - 00:13:15:12
The day after that, my CEO

00:13:15:12 - 00:13:17:11
told me that I was at the clinic

00:13:17:11 - 00:13:18:19
and the big wigs

00:13:18:19 - 00:13:19:22
from our health care system

00:13:19:22 - 00:13:22:01
all came into the clinic.

00:13:22:01 - 00:13:24:15
And I had to.

00:13:24:15 - 00:13:26:19
I had to perform for them

00:13:26:19 - 00:13:28:04
donning and doffing

00:13:28:04 - 00:13:31:01
because they had no idea

00:13:31:01 - 00:13:33:02
like how long that would take

00:13:33:02 - 00:13:34:18
and how we would have to factor

00:13:34:18 - 00:13:35:15
in those things

00:13:35:15 - 00:13:37:13
into the amount of human beings

00:13:37:13 - 00:13:39:09
we could test.

00:13:39:09 - 00:13:40:06
And I just remember

00:13:40:06 - 00:13:43:06
thinking to myself, shit,

00:13:43:07 - 00:13:44:18
I'm explaining

00:13:44:18 - 00:13:45:20
to the human beings

00:13:45:20 - 00:13:48:12
that run our entire organization

00:13:48:12 - 00:13:50:08
how to put gloves on properly

00:13:50:08 - 00:13:52:09
and like they don't know.

00:13:52:09 - 00:13:55:06
And, you know, I mean, obviously that's

00:13:55:06 - 00:13:56:07
I'm not I don't

00:13:56:07 - 00:13:57:15
that's not a secret that I think

00:13:57:15 - 00:13:59:05
one of the major problems in health care

00:13:59:05 - 00:14:01:21
is that the people who run the places

00:14:01:21 - 00:14:04:02
don't know how to do the work.

00:14:04:04 - 00:14:05:16
But I,

00:14:05:16 - 00:14:06:24
I just thought to myself, okay,

00:14:06:24 - 00:14:08:06
it's up to me like,

00:14:08:06 - 00:14:09:14
who else is going to do this?

00:14:09:14 - 00:14:11:15
Like someone has to do it.

00:14:11:15 - 00:14:12:19
I went to nursing school.

00:14:12:19 - 00:14:13:23
I took that stupid oath.

00:14:13:23 - 00:14:15:23
I got to do it, you know?

00:14:15:23 - 00:14:17:01
And so I did.

00:14:17:01 - 00:14:18:02
And I did what had to be done.

00:14:18:02 - 00:14:20:15
And we had a less than 5% recollection

00:14:20:15 - 00:14:22:07
rate on our specimens.

00:14:22:07 - 00:14:23:22
I ran a tight ship,

00:14:23:22 - 00:14:25:23
but it damn near killed me.

00:14:25:23 - 00:14:28:21
Yeah, I mean, I can attest to that.

00:14:28:21 - 00:14:29:24
It was

00:14:29:24 - 00:14:30:05
it was

00:14:30:05 - 00:14:32:03
I no longer work for that organization.

00:14:32:03 - 00:14:32:23
Right.

00:14:32:23 - 00:14:36:18
It was such a high volume, relentless.

00:14:36:18 - 00:14:38:16
And

00:14:38:16 - 00:14:41:09
you really had no back up for the like it

00:14:41:09 - 00:14:42:22
things went wrong on a Sunday.

00:14:42:22 - 00:14:45:01
It was you, no, it was, it was me. Yeah.

00:14:45:01 - 00:14:46:04
I didn't leave.

00:14:46:04 - 00:14:48:08
We didn't, you know, we couldn't travel,

00:14:48:08 - 00:14:51:05
didn't go anywhere for, you know,

00:14:51:05 - 00:14:52:13
two years.

00:14:52:13 - 00:14:53:03
So it was

00:14:53:03 - 00:14:53:24
it was a brutal time,

00:14:53:24 - 00:14:54:19
but it was a brutal time

00:14:54:19 - 00:14:56:18
for everyone in health care.

00:14:56:18 - 00:14:59:10
It was. But, you know,

00:14:59:12 - 00:14:59:22
it was

00:14:59:22 - 00:15:00:20
that I mean,

00:15:00:20 - 00:15:02:24
that was actually like that was a lot.

00:15:02:24 - 00:15:04:04
And I'm like I

00:15:04:04 - 00:15:05:14
just as a person,

00:15:05:14 - 00:15:07:16
as an employee of the system,

00:15:07:16 - 00:15:08:15
as a person who worked with you like,

00:15:08:15 - 00:15:10:18
I should really appreciate it.

00:15:10:18 - 00:15:11:09
Like,

00:15:11:09 - 00:15:13:16
that was a huge service you did

00:15:13:16 - 00:15:14:24
for all of us.

00:15:14:24 - 00:15:17:12
Yeah, I do feel very proud of it.

00:15:17:12 - 00:15:20:23
And on my desk here I keep what like it's

00:15:20:23 - 00:15:22:06
obviously was never opened,

00:15:22:06 - 00:15:24:05
but I keep one of the original swabs

00:15:24:05 - 00:15:26:17
we used to have to get them overnighted

00:15:26:17 - 00:15:27:17
from Virginia

00:15:27:17 - 00:15:28:23
in the beginning of the pandemic.

00:15:28:23 - 00:15:31:03
We didn't even have enough supplies

00:15:31:03 - 00:15:31:19
for any of that.

00:15:31:19 - 00:15:33:22
So I always keep one on my desk

00:15:33:22 - 00:15:36:06
to remind me of that time

00:15:36:06 - 00:15:38:00
and my perseverance through that time,

00:15:38:00 - 00:15:40:13
but also to not allow myself

00:15:40:13 - 00:15:42:04
to be put in a situation

00:15:42:04 - 00:15:44:05
where my employment is running my life

00:15:44:05 - 00:15:45:18
instead of the other way around.

00:15:45:18 - 00:15:48:23
Oh valuable lessons were learned.

00:15:49:00 - 00:15:51:09
Yes, valuable lessons were learned

00:15:51:09 - 00:15:52:05
because I didn't have a work life

00:15:52:05 - 00:15:53:08
balance at all.

00:15:53:08 - 00:15:54:08
No, no.

00:15:54:08 - 00:15:56:00
It was it was insane.

00:15:56:00 - 00:15:58:02
It was insane.

00:15:58:02 - 00:16:00:13
Okay, so then

00:16:00:13 - 00:16:01:16
so and that's another

00:16:01:16 - 00:16:02:07
like one of the things

00:16:02:07 - 00:16:02:18
that I

00:16:02:18 - 00:16:05:03
wanted to talk to you about because

00:16:05:03 - 00:16:07:20
so at that point,

00:16:07:22 - 00:16:08:09
we're coming

00:16:08:09 - 00:16:11:13
in like 2022 out of the pandemic.

00:16:11:13 - 00:16:14:06
You had worked for

00:16:14:06 - 00:16:16:01
Roper for how long at that point?

00:16:16:01 - 00:16:18:22
For like 17 or 18 years?

00:16:18:22 - 00:16:21:22
Yeah, that's a long time.

00:16:21:22 - 00:16:22:10
Yes.

00:16:22:10 - 00:16:23:07
It's the only job like,

00:16:23:07 - 00:16:24:07
I started there

00:16:24:07 - 00:16:26:18
when I was a nursing student,

00:16:26:18 - 00:16:27:22
and then I left

00:16:27:22 - 00:16:29:18
with a master's degree in nursing.

00:16:29:18 - 00:16:32:11
So that's how long I did there. Yeah.

00:16:32:11 - 00:16:33:13
So what

00:16:33:13 - 00:16:33:21
I want, I want to

00:16:33:21 - 00:16:35:09
you tell the listeners,

00:16:35:09 - 00:16:36:20
like what you're doing now, but I also

00:16:36:20 - 00:16:37:16
then after that,

00:16:37:16 - 00:16:38:18
I really want to pick your brain

00:16:38:18 - 00:16:40:11
a little bit about

00:16:40:11 - 00:16:42:21
that transition when you been at a place.

00:16:42:21 - 00:16:43:24
I mean, it's

00:16:43:24 - 00:16:46:01
a little bit like being married.

00:16:46:01 - 00:16:47:21
Oh, for sure.

00:16:47:21 - 00:16:50:21
And I feel like a lot of

00:16:51:00 - 00:16:52:11
physicians I work with

00:16:52:11 - 00:16:53:15
and like physicians

00:16:53:15 - 00:16:54:03
I coach,

00:16:54:03 - 00:16:56:01
I just feel like the

00:16:56:01 - 00:16:58:17
the fears and all the things, emotions

00:16:58:17 - 00:17:01:07
that come up around switching

00:17:01:07 - 00:17:03:21
a long time organization

00:17:03:23 - 00:17:06:16
probably don't get enough consideration.

00:17:06:16 - 00:17:08:11
Mm. That's true. Yeah.

00:17:08:11 - 00:17:11:03
So now I'm the director of Operations

00:17:11:03 - 00:17:11:21
for Agape

00:17:11:21 - 00:17:14:21
Care Groups Palliative Care Services

00:17:14:22 - 00:17:16:02
and Agape Care Group

00:17:16:02 - 00:17:17:19
serves the Southeast, South

00:17:17:19 - 00:17:18:17
Carolina, North Carolina,

00:17:18:17 - 00:17:20:20
Georgia, Louisiana, now

00:17:20:20 - 00:17:22:05
and Oklahoma as well.

00:17:22:05 - 00:17:24:15
So yeah, so it's really exciting.

00:17:24:15 - 00:17:25:21
We provide in-home

00:17:25:21 - 00:17:27:02
palliative services

00:17:27:02 - 00:17:28:24
as well as

00:17:28:24 - 00:17:30:00
I have nurse practitioners

00:17:30:00 - 00:17:31:07
in our inpatient units.

00:17:31:07 - 00:17:33:22
We have several across the state.

00:17:33:22 - 00:17:36:22
So it's a really fun and exciting job.

00:17:36:23 - 00:17:37:20
And it's new.

00:17:37:20 - 00:17:39:11
It's a brand new program for them too

00:17:39:11 - 00:17:40:12
less than a year old.

00:17:40:12 - 00:17:42:05
And so that was kind of part of

00:17:42:05 - 00:17:43:18
one of the reasons I was hired

00:17:43:18 - 00:17:45:01
is that's kind of

00:17:45:01 - 00:17:47:04
my thing is development of new programs

00:17:47:04 - 00:17:48:09
or looking at programs

00:17:48:09 - 00:17:50:15
that are in their infancy and say,

00:17:50:15 - 00:17:52:03
okay, this doesn't work,

00:17:52:03 - 00:17:52:22
this does work

00:17:52:22 - 00:17:54:24
and sort of improving process

00:17:54:24 - 00:17:55:18
as a process

00:17:55:18 - 00:17:58:03
improvement is sort of like

00:17:58:03 - 00:17:59:22
something I love to do now.

00:17:59:22 - 00:18:01:20
You know, I like I like efficiencies.

00:18:01:20 - 00:18:03:02
Efficiency is my love language.

00:18:03:02 - 00:18:04:19
I always say.

00:18:04:19 - 00:18:07:19
And so yeah, so I'm kind of

00:18:07:22 - 00:18:08:22
doing that now.

00:18:08:22 - 00:18:11:07
And I liken it to walking.

00:18:11:07 - 00:18:12:20
I told I told my boss this,

00:18:12:20 - 00:18:13:02
I said,

00:18:13:02 - 00:18:14:24
it's like walking across a beach

00:18:14:24 - 00:18:16:22
and I'm turning every pebble

00:18:16:22 - 00:18:18:13
and finding that there's something

00:18:18:13 - 00:18:20:06
under the pebble that you need to either

00:18:20:06 - 00:18:22:07
cheer about or jeer about.

00:18:22:07 - 00:18:23:16
And then you got to put that pebble

00:18:23:16 - 00:18:24:20
right back where you found it.

00:18:24:20 - 00:18:28:05
Once you, you know, make the change.

00:18:28:05 - 00:18:31:05
So it's a it's a steady it's been a

00:18:31:07 - 00:18:31:14
you know,

00:18:31:14 - 00:18:32:07
it's a journey

00:18:32:07 - 00:18:35:07
when you're coming into a new

00:18:35:10 - 00:18:36:05
program like that.

00:18:36:05 - 00:18:37:01
And then, of course,

00:18:37:01 - 00:18:39:06
just learning a whole new culture

00:18:39:06 - 00:18:40:10
of an organization

00:18:40:10 - 00:18:43:17
after so many years at a not for profit,

00:18:43:19 - 00:18:46:04
I'm now at a privately owned

00:18:46:04 - 00:18:49:10
equity owned company that is for profit.

00:18:49:10 - 00:18:52:17
And so that's a totally different change

00:18:52:19 - 00:18:54:24
for me and,

00:18:55:01 - 00:18:55:07
you know,

00:18:55:07 - 00:18:57:04
one that I was afraid to make of course.

00:18:57:04 - 00:18:59:06
Yeah, of course, But

00:18:59:06 - 00:19:00:08
I'm very glad that I did

00:19:00:08 - 00:19:02:01
it, that's for sure. Yeah.

00:19:02:01 - 00:19:04:09
Because it, it, it was like you said,

00:19:04:09 - 00:19:05:15
my relationship with my ex

00:19:05:15 - 00:19:08:01
employer was a bit like a marriage.

00:19:08:01 - 00:19:09:12
And as a matter of fact,

00:19:09:12 - 00:19:10:20
as long as my marriage,

00:19:10:20 - 00:19:12:13
pretty much like I was marrying my

00:19:12:13 - 00:19:13:05
I married my husband

00:19:13:05 - 00:19:14:19
right before nursing school.

00:19:14:19 - 00:19:17:19
So, like, so as long as you know.

00:19:17:21 - 00:19:19:19
And I really did think

00:19:19:19 - 00:19:21:09
that I would retire

00:19:21:09 - 00:19:22:20
from that organization.

00:19:22:20 - 00:19:26:09
But, you know, things change and

00:19:26:11 - 00:19:27:20
philosophies and health care

00:19:27:20 - 00:19:29:12
change and leadership changes.

00:19:29:12 - 00:19:31:10
And I don't have to agree

00:19:31:10 - 00:19:32:05
with all of that.

00:19:32:05 - 00:19:34:07
And I can go and I have

00:19:34:07 - 00:19:36:17
I didn't realize probably I think

00:19:36:17 - 00:19:37:05
one of the things

00:19:37:05 - 00:19:38:15
that I didn't realize about myself

00:19:38:15 - 00:19:40:12
was that I am talented

00:19:40:12 - 00:19:43:10
and I do have gifts to offer

00:19:43:12 - 00:19:44:13
another organization

00:19:44:13 - 00:19:45:18
or a different place.

00:19:45:18 - 00:19:47:03
But I didn't think I really had

00:19:47:03 - 00:19:48:15
because I'd been at that

00:19:48:15 - 00:19:50:23
one place for so long.

00:19:50:23 - 00:19:52:18
I think I was probably like,

00:19:52:18 - 00:19:54:02
Well, no one will know, you know,

00:19:54:02 - 00:19:56:16
no one will know how talented I am

00:19:56:16 - 00:19:58:17
because I've I've only done it here.

00:19:58:17 - 00:19:59:00
Right.

00:19:59:00 - 00:20:01:14
But that's not really the case,

00:20:01:14 - 00:20:03:07
which is great.

00:20:03:07 - 00:20:05:00
Turns out not to be true.

00:20:05:00 - 00:20:06:14
Turns out that's not the case.

00:20:06:14 - 00:20:07:23
If you're good at what you do,

00:20:07:23 - 00:20:10:14
you can be good at it somewhere else.

00:20:10:14 - 00:20:13:01
Yeah, but I was scared

00:20:13:01 - 00:20:16:16
for sure to leave and what about like so.

00:20:16:16 - 00:20:17:21
Some of things, I think. So.

00:20:17:21 - 00:20:19:10
I'm. I'm the opposite.

00:20:19:10 - 00:20:23:07
Like I've had a bunch of jobs and I know

00:20:23:09 - 00:20:25:18
and really not at all

00:20:25:18 - 00:20:26:23
because of unhappiness.

00:20:26:23 - 00:20:29:12
Like I like I've had a bunch of jobs

00:20:29:12 - 00:20:31:13
I really like, you know, I’ve moved, I

00:20:31:13 - 00:20:33:24
kind of like change and

00:20:34:01 - 00:20:36:19
so and not afraid to, you

00:20:36:19 - 00:20:37:19
know, pivot

00:20:37:19 - 00:20:40:19
and re pivot and come back and

00:20:41:00 - 00:20:43:06
but I know like I do feel

00:20:43:06 - 00:20:48:16
I like fear sometimes, but I also think

00:20:48:18 - 00:20:51:05
I mean, I wonder I'm curious

00:20:51:05 - 00:20:52:07
from the other standpoint,

00:20:52:07 - 00:20:53:12
like what else

00:20:53:12 - 00:20:57:13
like maybe kept you from leaving?

00:20:57:15 - 00:20:59:06
I mean, because you've had offers

00:20:59:06 - 00:21:01:00
I know this like,

00:21:01:00 - 00:21:01:21
yeah, you know,

00:21:01:21 - 00:21:03:04
people know that you do good work

00:21:03:04 - 00:21:05:01
and you've had job offers like,

00:21:05:01 - 00:21:06:11
but what are some other

00:21:06:11 - 00:21:08:19
considerations that kept you in this long

00:21:08:19 - 00:21:10:21
term relationship?

00:21:10:21 - 00:21:12:05
Probably because the work

00:21:12:05 - 00:21:14:03
was really altruistic.

00:21:14:03 - 00:21:16:02
And so I felt guilt.

00:21:16:02 - 00:21:19:11
If I felt guilt about going to like a

00:21:19:11 - 00:21:20:20
for profit

00:21:20:20 - 00:21:22:07
or, you know, or not

00:21:22:07 - 00:21:23:10
being a public servant

00:21:23:10 - 00:21:24:21
anymore, you know, like

00:21:24:21 - 00:21:26:05
that was something

00:21:26:05 - 00:21:27:12
that I struggled with a little bit

00:21:27:12 - 00:21:30:00
because I'd always kind of

00:21:30:00 - 00:21:32:19
done that, worked in that space, provided

00:21:32:19 - 00:21:34:07
care for the humans

00:21:34:07 - 00:21:36:00
that people and society

00:21:36:00 - 00:21:37:17
didn't necessarily want to care for,

00:21:37:17 - 00:21:38:11
you know,

00:21:38:11 - 00:21:39:17
the mentally ill,

00:21:39:17 - 00:21:40:10
the homeless,

00:21:40:10 - 00:21:41:14
the drug addicts,

00:21:41:14 - 00:21:42:12
these guys,

00:21:42:12 - 00:21:44:23
the super users of health care systems.

00:21:44:23 - 00:21:45:05
Right.

00:21:45:05 - 00:21:47:15
And so I was like, well,

00:21:47:15 - 00:21:48:20
if I don't do that,

00:21:48:20 - 00:21:51:04
if I'm not leading that charge,

00:21:51:04 - 00:21:52:24
will it just fall through the cracks?

00:21:52:24 - 00:21:54:02
But, you know,

00:21:54:02 - 00:21:55:08
I mean, that's ridiculous

00:21:55:08 - 00:21:56:00
for me to think

00:21:56:00 - 00:21:57:19
that just me

00:21:57:19 - 00:21:59:08
would have that effect right?

00:21:59:08 - 00:22:00:13
Of course, it's not going to fall

00:22:00:13 - 00:22:01:06
through the cracks.

00:22:01:06 - 00:22:02:21
Like, of course I can leave.

00:22:02:21 - 00:22:03:11
And of course,

00:22:03:11 - 00:22:05:10
someone younger, smarter, faster

00:22:05:10 - 00:22:07:11
with better ideas is there

00:22:07:11 - 00:22:08:02
you know,

00:22:08:02 - 00:22:09:11
they're cranking them out all the time.

00:22:09:11 - 00:22:13:03
And so that's a good thing, I think.

00:22:13:05 - 00:22:16:08
But yeah, I really was

00:22:16:10 - 00:22:18:05
trepidatious about

00:22:18:05 - 00:22:20:15
leaving that part of health care

00:22:20:15 - 00:22:22:11
because that's kind of

00:22:22:11 - 00:22:23:21
that was my specialty,

00:22:23:21 - 00:22:25:13
really is community health.

00:22:25:13 - 00:22:26:18
So, you know,

00:22:26:18 - 00:22:27:10
but the

00:22:27:10 - 00:22:28:16
the flip side of that coin

00:22:28:16 - 00:22:30:20
is I've done my time.

00:22:30:20 - 00:22:31:24
Right.

00:22:31:24 - 00:22:32:09
Okay.

00:22:32:09 - 00:22:33:10
Here to actually say,

00:22:33:10 - 00:22:34:04
okay, true

00:22:34:04 - 00:22:35:23
confessions, you're actually still doing

00:22:35:23 - 00:22:37:14
community health.

00:22:37:14 - 00:22:38:18
Yeah. Yeah. That's it.

00:22:38:18 - 00:22:40:04
I still do community health.

00:22:40:04 - 00:22:41:24
I have a part time a side

00:22:41:24 - 00:22:43:18
hustle, as I like to call it.

00:22:43:18 - 00:22:46:11
And I work with a mobile health unit

00:22:46:11 - 00:22:48:13
that delivers care to the underserved

00:22:48:13 - 00:22:49:13
in the Lowcountry.

00:22:49:13 - 00:22:51:22
It's a huge need

00:22:51:22 - 00:22:53:10
and it definitely fills up my cup

00:22:53:10 - 00:22:55:03
for for that aspect.

00:22:55:03 - 00:22:58:08
But it's, you know, I'm

00:22:58:08 - 00:23:01:09
I'm trying to work very hard now

00:23:01:09 - 00:23:03:11
while I can so that I can retire.

00:23:03:11 - 00:23:06:00
Very young.

00:23:06:02 - 00:23:07:13
Nice, nice.

00:23:07:13 - 00:23:10:02
I want to say one thing,

00:23:10:02 - 00:23:11:08
not especially to you,

00:23:11:08 - 00:23:13:05
but like for our listeners,

00:23:13:05 - 00:23:14:24
one thing that I think

00:23:14:24 - 00:23:15:17
like an image

00:23:15:17 - 00:23:20:03
I have about work leaving work,

00:23:20:05 - 00:23:21:10
having that idea

00:23:21:10 - 00:23:23:00
that if I leave like this,

00:23:23:00 - 00:23:25:04
these patients won't get taken care of.

00:23:25:04 - 00:23:27:07
Like nobody can do it but me.

00:23:27:07 - 00:23:30:17
Like that's a very common belief

00:23:30:17 - 00:23:34:01
in health care,

00:23:34:03 - 00:23:36:15
especially

00:23:36:15 - 00:23:39:15
I thought about it in particular a lot.

00:23:39:17 - 00:23:41:18
We had a beloved

00:23:41:18 - 00:23:43:23
infectious disease physician

00:23:43:23 - 00:23:45:00
who passed away

00:23:45:00 - 00:23:49:05
very unexpectedly a few years ago.

00:23:49:07 - 00:23:49:24
And, you know,

00:23:49:24 - 00:23:50:20
she and I had never had

00:23:50:20 - 00:23:51:17
this direct conversation.

00:23:51:17 - 00:23:53:24
But I just imagine that she was

00:23:53:24 - 00:23:55:07
she was super dedicated.

00:23:55:07 - 00:23:55:18
That was like

00:23:55:18 - 00:23:58:14
she was very dedicated, her hallmarks.

00:23:58:14 - 00:24:00:00
And I just kind of had

00:24:00:00 - 00:24:00:11
the idea

00:24:00:11 - 00:24:01:16
that she might have been a person

00:24:01:16 - 00:24:02:06
who thought, like,

00:24:02:06 - 00:24:04:20
if I retire or whatever,

00:24:04:20 - 00:24:08:13
if I stop like the work halt and nobody

00:24:08:15 - 00:24:09:08
cares about it.

00:24:09:08 - 00:24:11:03
But I sort of imagine

00:24:11:03 - 00:24:12:19
and this is a good image for me,

00:24:12:19 - 00:24:13:21
or it might be gross to other people.

00:24:13:21 - 00:24:15:17
I sort of imagine like

00:24:15:17 - 00:24:17:07
the work in like the

00:24:17:07 - 00:24:20:07
the filling in of like the hole

00:24:20:07 - 00:24:22:05
that our absence creates is like

00:24:22:05 - 00:24:24:14
ants, like

00:24:24:16 - 00:24:26:06
kind of marching

00:24:26:06 - 00:24:28:03
over the hill or whatever.

00:24:28:03 - 00:24:30:11
It's like space loves a vacuum.

00:24:30:11 - 00:24:31:18
Yes, space loves a vacuum.

00:24:31:18 - 00:24:33:22
And it does make the problem get solved.

00:24:33:22 - 00:24:36:00
Like, we don't know how, but like,

00:24:36:00 - 00:24:38:03
our patients will get taken care of.

00:24:38:03 - 00:24:39:23
Like the removal comes

00:24:39:23 - 00:24:41:05
and when new will come, they think, Oh,

00:24:41:05 - 00:24:42:15
we can never recruit this spot.

00:24:42:15 - 00:24:44:07
Well, like they figure it out

00:24:44:07 - 00:24:45:09
when we're not there.

00:24:45:09 - 00:24:46:22
Right, right, right.

00:24:46:22 - 00:24:47:21
I know That's

00:24:47:21 - 00:24:48:05
I mean,

00:24:48:05 - 00:24:49:04
I think

00:24:49:04 - 00:24:50:05
every time I think that way,

00:24:50:05 - 00:24:50:23
I think to myself,

00:24:50:23 - 00:24:51:20
don't be so arrogant

00:24:51:20 - 00:24:54:02
Amanda like of tons of you know,

00:24:54:02 - 00:24:55:14
there are millions of talented

00:24:55:14 - 00:24:56:23
human beings out there

00:24:56:23 - 00:24:58:07
who who are doing this work

00:24:58:07 - 00:25:00:00
and so passionate about this work.

00:25:00:00 - 00:25:01:13
You've you've done it.

00:25:01:13 - 00:25:02:09
You've done

00:25:02:09 - 00:25:04:04
you've done your time, you've done it.

00:25:04:04 - 00:25:05:06
You've created something

00:25:05:06 - 00:25:06:18
that hopefully will be there

00:25:06:18 - 00:25:08:23
for many years to come.

00:25:08:23 - 00:25:10:07
And so and that's,

00:25:10:07 - 00:25:10:15
you know,

00:25:10:15 - 00:25:11:15
that's a mark

00:25:11:15 - 00:25:14:15
that I can leave on the Lowcountry,

00:25:14:18 - 00:25:16:09
you know, feel good about.

00:25:16:09 - 00:25:17:15
Oh, and I also wonder,

00:25:17:15 - 00:25:19:24
I don't know the answer to this.

00:25:20:01 - 00:25:20:19
Are you

00:25:20:19 - 00:25:21:10
like, do you

00:25:21:10 - 00:25:23:23
get the joy in the creation

00:25:23:23 - 00:25:25:10
and setting the systems up

00:25:25:10 - 00:25:28:15
and then once it's running like bye

00:25:28:17 - 00:25:32:00
Yeah, yeah, I need a new challenge.

00:25:32:00 - 00:25:33:14
Maybe

00:25:33:14 - 00:25:36:17
I really do enjoy taking care providers.

00:25:36:17 - 00:25:38:09
That's always been something I love.

00:25:38:09 - 00:25:39:02
That's probably why

00:25:39:02 - 00:25:40:13
the hospitalist job was

00:25:40:13 - 00:25:41:15
a favorite of mine

00:25:41:15 - 00:25:41:24
is because

00:25:41:24 - 00:25:44:06
I just really got to take care of y'all

00:25:44:06 - 00:25:46:20
in the clinical setting.

00:25:46:20 - 00:25:47:10
So.

00:25:47:10 - 00:25:49:01
But yeah, when I get something up

00:25:49:01 - 00:25:50:20
and running smoothly

00:25:50:20 - 00:25:53:09
and I'm like, okay, well,

00:25:53:09 - 00:25:55:04
I'm not one to sit on my laurels,

00:25:55:04 - 00:25:55:12
you know,

00:25:55:12 - 00:25:58:07
like I always want to do something else.

00:25:58:07 - 00:26:01:07
And so I think that's

00:26:01:13 - 00:26:04:07
why it appeals to me now

00:26:04:07 - 00:26:05:24
in this stage of my career

00:26:05:24 - 00:26:07:04
after starting three

00:26:07:04 - 00:26:09:00
or four different programs

00:26:09:00 - 00:26:10:19
that like this is kind of my thing

00:26:10:19 - 00:26:12:03
and that,

00:26:12:03 - 00:26:15:02
you know, and I, I reflect back now, it's

00:26:15:02 - 00:26:15:23
such a long time

00:26:15:23 - 00:26:16:22
to make the decision

00:26:16:22 - 00:26:18:05
to leave that company

00:26:18:05 - 00:26:20:12
I've been with for so many years

00:26:20:12 - 00:26:22:07
for so many reasons

00:26:22:07 - 00:26:24:04
to be afraid of that or hesitant of that.

00:26:24:04 - 00:26:25:19
I took a really long time

00:26:25:19 - 00:26:27:15
to make the decision,

00:26:27:15 - 00:26:30:13
but now I think to myself,

00:26:30:15 - 00:26:33:05
Oh yeah, like,

00:26:33:05 - 00:26:35:06
sure, why?

00:26:35:06 - 00:26:36:23
Why did this next like,

00:26:36:23 - 00:26:39:02
right, Yeah, like BFD.

00:26:39:02 - 00:26:41:24
I left that place. Right. Cool.

00:26:41:24 - 00:26:43:04
Like, let's,

00:26:43:04 - 00:26:44:12
let's go on another adventure.

00:26:44:12 - 00:26:45:23
I've never been like that before.

00:26:45:23 - 00:26:46:19
It's quite freeing.

00:26:46:19 - 00:26:49:18
Yeah, that's. That's awesome.

00:26:49:18 - 00:26:50:17
And I love that.

00:26:50:17 - 00:26:53:09
I love that you're doing

00:26:53:09 - 00:26:53:21
like,

00:26:53:21 - 00:26:58:11
you're sort of using your powers in the

00:26:58:13 - 00:26:59:12
highest good.

00:26:59:12 - 00:27:00:07
Like your.

00:27:00:07 - 00:27:02:00
Like you set up the program,

00:27:02:00 - 00:27:03:14
all that energy and problem

00:27:03:14 - 00:27:04:09
solving and work,

00:27:04:09 - 00:27:06:23
and then like when it's running smoothly,

00:27:06:23 - 00:27:10:03
like, then you get to go and do it again.

00:27:10:05 - 00:27:11:22
And that's the work you like.

00:27:11:22 - 00:27:13:11
That's the work you're great at.

00:27:13:11 - 00:27:15:18
And I think it really serves the world

00:27:15:18 - 00:27:17:18
when all of us do

00:27:17:18 - 00:27:21:10
the work that we like the most,

00:27:21:12 - 00:27:23:21
even if we're good at like

00:27:23:21 - 00:27:24:14
you were great

00:27:24:14 - 00:27:26:19
also at just running the clinic.

00:27:26:19 - 00:27:29:00
You’re fantastic at it.

00:27:29:00 - 00:27:30:03
But that's not what you like

00:27:30:03 - 00:27:31:21
the most, right?

00:27:31:21 - 00:27:34:18
I think it serves more when we like,

00:27:34:18 - 00:27:37:12
we catch that work that we like

00:27:37:12 - 00:27:39:10
and we're good at

00:27:39:12 - 00:27:40:06
for sure.

00:27:40:06 - 00:27:41:22
I it made me think

00:27:41:22 - 00:27:42:23
I never knew that

00:27:42:23 - 00:27:46:20
I would be good at fundraising and talk

00:27:46:20 - 00:27:48:05
and talking to be I'd never

00:27:48:05 - 00:27:50:01
that's not something I'd ever done

00:27:50:01 - 00:27:51:20
but at one point and you’re ridiculously

00:27:51:20 - 00:27:52:15
good at it.

00:27:52:15 - 00:27:53:05
Yeah.

00:27:53:05 - 00:27:54:16
Ridiculously good at it,

00:27:54:16 - 00:27:57:16
like a million millions of dollars.

00:27:57:17 - 00:27:59:06
Yeah.

00:27:59:06 - 00:27:59:13
Yeah.

00:27:59:13 - 00:28:01:24
At one point my organization said

00:28:01:24 - 00:28:05:05
fundraise to operate, and I was like,

00:28:05:07 - 00:28:06:05
okay,

00:28:06:05 - 00:28:07:14
let me go find some rich people

00:28:07:14 - 00:28:09:01
who want to give us some money.

00:28:09:01 - 00:28:11:11
But first of all, it's easy to

00:28:11:11 - 00:28:12:16
to get someone

00:28:12:16 - 00:28:14:18
excited about doing work for people

00:28:14:18 - 00:28:16:15
who don't have access to care.

00:28:16:15 - 00:28:19:08
That's not a hard sell, in my opinion,

00:28:19:08 - 00:28:20:24
but I never knew that

00:28:20:24 - 00:28:23:11
that's something I would enjoy, you know?

00:28:23:11 - 00:28:24:08
But I loved it.

00:28:24:08 - 00:28:26:01
I love that aspect of the job.

00:28:26:01 - 00:28:26:23
And so

00:28:26:23 - 00:28:27:22
now that's something

00:28:27:22 - 00:28:29:06
that I've got in the toolbox

00:28:29:06 - 00:28:31:10
that I never knew that I had.

00:28:31:10 - 00:28:32:23
And I can implement that

00:28:32:23 - 00:28:34:01
in a variety of ways

00:28:34:01 - 00:28:35:09
so that, you know, it's things

00:28:35:09 - 00:28:38:08
like that, those experiences that,

00:28:38:10 - 00:28:38:24
you know,

00:28:38:24 - 00:28:40:19
sort of lead you down your next path.

00:28:40:19 - 00:28:42:14
Right, Right. Yeah.

00:28:42:14 - 00:28:44:00
I'm I'm learning to be

00:28:44:00 - 00:28:46:16
not so rigid about it.

00:28:46:16 - 00:28:47:03
Yeah.

00:28:47:03 - 00:28:51:14
No, this is an a I think a very

00:28:51:16 - 00:28:54:08
fun and interesting time for you.

00:28:54:08 - 00:28:55:24
Yeah, that's for sure.

00:28:55:24 - 00:28:57:19
Growing out of the company.

00:28:57:19 - 00:28:59:08
Like doing.

00:28:59:08 - 00:28:59:24
Yeah.

00:28:59:24 - 00:29:04:00
Working from home all the things.

00:29:04:01 - 00:29:05:03
Yeah.

00:29:05:03 - 00:29:08:15
So okay I want to ask you about you

00:29:08:15 - 00:29:12:06
mentioned retiring early and

00:29:12:08 - 00:29:13:14
so we've talked about this

00:29:13:14 - 00:29:15:17
a number of times

00:29:15:17 - 00:29:19:08
with a glass of wine in hand and

00:29:19:10 - 00:29:20:03
when things are going

00:29:20:03 - 00:29:20:18
really well

00:29:20:18 - 00:29:21:16
with cheese

00:29:21:16 - 00:29:23:00
and bread and crackers,

00:29:23:00 - 00:29:26:24
that's the best way I have to share it.

00:29:26:24 - 00:29:29:19
So she's married to an Italian

00:29:29:19 - 00:29:31:03
and part of the dream,

00:29:31:03 - 00:29:32:11
because I know, like people like

00:29:32:11 - 00:29:34:03
this is like a hot thing right now.

00:29:34:03 - 00:29:35:07
And we've talked about

00:29:35:07 - 00:29:37:08
like retiring to Italy.

00:29:37:08 - 00:29:38:12
Right? Right.

00:29:38:12 - 00:29:39:20
What might that look like?

00:29:39:20 - 00:29:41:09
And tell us some of the truth

00:29:41:09 - 00:29:42:14
because, you know,

00:29:42:14 - 00:29:45:13
like way, way more than most people,

00:29:45:13 - 00:29:48:01
like some of the

00:29:48:03 - 00:29:49:20
insider on

00:29:49:20 - 00:29:52:13
moving actually moving there for sure.

00:29:52:13 - 00:29:52:23
For sure.

00:29:52:23 - 00:29:55:13
Yeah yeah we I'm my husband is a Italian

00:29:55:13 - 00:29:57:06
he was raised in America but he’s Italian

00:29:57:06 - 00:29:59:00
Giuseppe Giovanni Biondi

00:29:59:00 - 00:30:01:16
and my father in law lives in Italy.

00:30:01:16 - 00:30:05:09
We go at least twice a year, which is,

00:30:05:11 - 00:30:06:04
I mean, you know,

00:30:06:04 - 00:30:07:12
who can complain about that?

00:30:07:12 - 00:30:09:10
And so we'd like to live there

00:30:09:10 - 00:30:10:22
at least part of the time.

00:30:10:22 - 00:30:12:09
I always joke and say, you know,

00:30:12:09 - 00:30:13:20
there's a target in Italy,

00:30:13:20 - 00:30:14:15
so I probably can’t live there

00:30:14:15 - 00:30:15:16
all the time.

00:30:15:16 - 00:30:21:13
Yeah, but it is a wonderful place to be.

00:30:21:15 - 00:30:24:09
But, you know, these $1 houses

00:30:24:09 - 00:30:26:00
that they are €1 houses

00:30:26:00 - 00:30:28:07
that they have for sale, I mean, yeah.

00:30:28:07 - 00:30:31:22
Like we get the biggest kick out of that

00:30:31:24 - 00:30:33:18
because good luck to you you know.

00:30:33:18 - 00:30:34:18
Sure.

00:30:34:18 - 00:30:35:21
You buy that euro,

00:30:35:21 - 00:30:36:15
you buy that house

00:30:36:15 - 00:30:38:14
for a euro that’s in a village

00:30:38:14 - 00:30:40:21
where four other people live, okay,

00:30:40:21 - 00:30:41:16
No one lives there.

00:30:41:16 - 00:30:42:01
That's why

00:30:42:01 - 00:30:42:06
they are

00:30:42:06 - 00:30:43:07
begging you to come there

00:30:43:07 - 00:30:45:08
and spend your dollar on a house

00:30:45:08 - 00:30:47:12
that it's a thousand years old.

00:30:47:12 - 00:30:49:18
So it doesn't have any plumbing.

00:30:49:18 - 00:30:51:02
And the electrical wires

00:30:51:02 - 00:30:52:23
are all on the outside

00:30:52:23 - 00:30:53:22
of the walls

00:30:53:22 - 00:30:56:12
and it needs to be completely redone.

00:30:56:12 - 00:30:57:02
Right.

00:30:57:02 - 00:30:57:20
Which is fine

00:30:57:20 - 00:30:59:05
because labor is cheaper

00:30:59:05 - 00:31:01:07
and materials are cheaper there.

00:31:01:07 - 00:31:02:08
But you have to promise

00:31:02:08 - 00:31:03:02
the government

00:31:03:02 - 00:31:03:17
that you're going to be able

00:31:03:17 - 00:31:05:09
to complete that task

00:31:05:09 - 00:31:07:01
in a certain amount of time.

00:31:07:01 - 00:31:08:14
Oh, I didn’t know that.

00:31:08:14 - 00:31:10:07
Yeah. Yeah, you have to.

00:31:10:07 - 00:31:10:15
Yeah.

00:31:10:15 - 00:31:11:06
And as a matter of fact,

00:31:11:06 - 00:31:12:09
they're going to take some money,

00:31:12:09 - 00:31:16:02
probably about 20 or €30,000 to make sure

00:31:16:04 - 00:31:17:11
that you do complete it

00:31:17:11 - 00:31:19:00
in the right amount of time.

00:31:19:00 - 00:31:19:24
But

00:31:19:24 - 00:31:20:23
and I don't mean to offend

00:31:20:23 - 00:31:23:10
anyone who is an Italian citizen.

00:31:23:10 - 00:31:24:08
I love that country.

00:31:24:08 - 00:31:25:15
It's my favorite place on earth.

00:31:25:15 - 00:31:26:01
She loves it.

00:31:26:01 - 00:31:28:06
She this bitch brags

00:31:28:06 - 00:31:30:07
when she's going to Italy for months

00:31:30:07 - 00:31:31:09
in advance.

00:31:31:09 - 00:31:33:07
Yeah, it's terrible.

00:31:33:07 - 00:31:36:05
But like, things don't work

00:31:36:05 - 00:31:37:13
like they do in America.

00:31:37:13 - 00:31:39:11
So if you give the government

00:31:39:11 - 00:31:42:08
$30,000 of your monthly to hold, well,

00:31:42:08 - 00:31:43:10
you may never see it again.

00:31:43:10 - 00:31:44:06
Okay?

00:31:44:06 - 00:31:45:11
Yet if you put it in a bank,

00:31:45:11 - 00:31:47:00
it's probably not that safe.

00:31:47:00 - 00:31:48:02
You're going to want to deposit

00:31:48:02 - 00:31:48:12
that money

00:31:48:12 - 00:31:51:02
in the post office where your bank is,

00:31:51:02 - 00:31:53:19
where your money is the most safe.

00:31:53:21 - 00:31:54:23
Now, you can't really

00:31:54:23 - 00:31:58:18
do any of that unless you have

00:31:58:20 - 00:32:00:14
a Social Security number in Italy.

00:32:00:14 - 00:32:03:06
So you'd have to apply for that.

00:32:03:06 - 00:32:05:14
And then mortgages don't really work

00:32:05:14 - 00:32:06:21
like they work over here.

00:32:06:21 - 00:32:07:06
You're not

00:32:07:06 - 00:32:11:12
borrowing $500,000 to buy a house.

00:32:11:14 - 00:32:12:11
They're not going to lend you

00:32:12:11 - 00:32:13:06
that kind of money.

00:32:13:06 - 00:32:13:16
They don't have

00:32:13:16 - 00:32:14:18
that kind of money to lend you.

00:32:14:18 - 00:32:16:14
Its Italy, you know,

00:32:16:14 - 00:32:17:00
there are

00:32:17:00 - 00:32:18:07
they want you to move there

00:32:18:07 - 00:32:21:03
and influx them with revenue, right?

00:32:21:03 - 00:32:21:13
Yeah.

00:32:21:13 - 00:32:23:01
So and then okay,

00:32:23:01 - 00:32:24:04
so let's just say you do

00:32:24:04 - 00:32:25:17
all that, you're like, fine with it.

00:32:25:17 - 00:32:26:00
Okay,

00:32:26:00 - 00:32:28:13
So now you have to renovate your home.

00:32:28:13 - 00:32:31:24
Okay, well, you're an American, so

00:32:32:01 - 00:32:34:12
any Italian contractor is going to see

00:32:34:12 - 00:32:38:07
ya coming from kilometers away,

00:32:38:09 - 00:32:39:20
and they're going to take advantage

00:32:39:20 - 00:32:43:20
of that plain and simple. Yeah. So,

00:32:43:22 - 00:32:45:04
you know, if you don't have

00:32:45:04 - 00:32:46:05
enough wine to feed em

00:32:46:05 - 00:32:47:00
at the end of the day,

00:32:47:00 - 00:32:47:23
then you may not see them

00:32:47:23 - 00:32:49:04
for a couple of weeks.

00:32:49:04 - 00:32:51:08
And, you know, the

00:32:51:08 - 00:32:52:19
not that I'm not saying

00:32:52:19 - 00:32:54:04
they're unreliable human beings,

00:32:54:04 - 00:32:55:10
I'm just saying that

00:32:55:10 - 00:32:57:17
they also are looking for an opportunity.

00:32:57:17 - 00:32:58:14
Right. Right.

00:32:58:14 - 00:33:00:02
And so it doesn't

00:33:00:02 - 00:33:00:10
you know,

00:33:00:10 - 00:33:02:02
you're going to get good quality work

00:33:02:02 - 00:33:03:11
because the craftsmanship

00:33:03:11 - 00:33:05:10
from what I've seen,

00:33:05:10 - 00:33:06:11
my father in law,

00:33:06:11 - 00:33:06:21
my mother

00:33:06:21 - 00:33:07:19
and father in law's house

00:33:07:19 - 00:33:09:08
and the subsequent things

00:33:09:08 - 00:33:10:22
that they've built

00:33:10:22 - 00:33:15:04
is amazing and cannot be recreated.

00:33:15:06 - 00:33:16:11
But again,

00:33:16:11 - 00:33:17:17
here you are in America

00:33:17:17 - 00:33:18:14
and you're probably not going to be there

00:33:18:14 - 00:33:20:02
all the time.

00:33:20:02 - 00:33:23:18
Also, fun fact about Italian houses.

00:33:23:20 - 00:33:26:12
If someone moves in there and squats

00:33:26:12 - 00:33:28:02
in there,

00:33:28:04 - 00:33:30:00
you're never going to get them out.

00:33:30:00 - 00:33:32:15
Really? Yeah, that's.

00:33:32:15 - 00:33:33:02
Yeah.

00:33:33:02 - 00:33:35:04
So then you got to worry about,

00:33:35:04 - 00:33:36:21
okay, how secure is my property

00:33:36:21 - 00:33:39:00
when I'm not there, all the things.

00:33:39:00 - 00:33:41:12
So it's a big endeavor.

00:33:41:12 - 00:33:45:08
And now so many expats are trying

00:33:45:08 - 00:33:46:04
to live there.

00:33:46:04 - 00:33:47:06
And this is especially true

00:33:47:06 - 00:33:49:16
in the south of Italy,

00:33:49:16 - 00:33:51:18
which I'm not as familiar with.

00:33:51:18 - 00:33:54:22
So disclosure where Emilia-Romagna’s

00:33:54:22 - 00:33:56:18
that is the territory of Italy,

00:33:56:18 - 00:33:57:20
the region of Italy,

00:33:57:20 - 00:33:59:21
where our home and family are.

00:33:59:21 - 00:34:02:21
So that's where we go the most.

00:34:02:21 - 00:34:04:11
You

00:34:04:11 - 00:34:06:06
my the view from my porch

00:34:06:06 - 00:34:07:07
looks into Tuscany,

00:34:07:07 - 00:34:08:22
but I'm actually in Emilia-Romagna.

00:34:08:22 - 00:34:10:04
So

00:34:10:04 - 00:34:12:09
but in the south there

00:34:12:09 - 00:34:13:08
there's been so many

00:34:13:08 - 00:34:15:13
there's been an influx of expats and

00:34:15:13 - 00:34:16:24
and so now there aren't

00:34:16:24 - 00:34:19:20
a lot of these $1 houses for sale.

00:34:19:22 - 00:34:20:06
I mean, you

00:34:20:06 - 00:34:22:07
can, but you can still get real estate

00:34:22:07 - 00:34:23:07
fully renovated.

00:34:23:07 - 00:34:24:24
Nice real estate is still cheaper

00:34:24:24 - 00:34:26:00
than it is

00:34:26:00 - 00:34:28:21
certainly than like here in Charleston.

00:34:28:21 - 00:34:30:21
You're still going to your dollar

00:34:30:21 - 00:34:32:06
still going to go far.

00:34:32:06 - 00:34:34:07
My father in law

00:34:34:07 - 00:34:36:20
worked in America for ever for 50

00:34:36:20 - 00:34:38:00
something years.

00:34:38:00 - 00:34:40:06
So he was a taxpaying citizen.

00:34:40:06 - 00:34:41:05
You know, he has

00:34:41:05 - 00:34:43:02
he takes the Social Security

00:34:43:02 - 00:34:44:11
and he is

00:34:44:11 - 00:34:47:08
able to live extremely comfortably.

00:34:47:08 - 00:34:48:11
Whereas in America,

00:34:48:11 - 00:34:50:00
you wouldn't really be able

00:34:50:00 - 00:34:51:10
to live that comfortably.

00:34:51:10 - 00:34:52:20
As you know,

00:34:52:20 - 00:34:55:00
people who are just on Social Security,

00:34:55:00 - 00:34:56:16
they're in the poverty line.

00:34:56:16 - 00:34:58:12
Right.

00:34:58:12 - 00:35:00:05
And then also they have universal

00:35:00:05 - 00:35:00:24
health care there.

00:35:00:24 - 00:35:03:13
So he doesn't I'm

00:35:03:13 - 00:35:06:13
not saying that it's good, Right.

00:35:06:13 - 00:35:08:24
But it is covered.

00:35:08:24 - 00:35:09:08
Right.

00:35:09:08 - 00:35:12:00
So nobody is going to go bankrupt

00:35:12:00 - 00:35:14:17
to get a cancer treatment in

00:35:14:17 - 00:35:17:06
in a country with socialized medicine.

00:35:17:08 - 00:35:18:02
Now, you may

00:35:18:02 - 00:35:21:12
not get preventative treatment.

00:35:21:13 - 00:35:22:11
You know, there's not

00:35:22:11 - 00:35:22:18
you know,

00:35:22:18 - 00:35:23:13
they don't do a lot of

00:35:23:13 - 00:35:24:21
a whole lot of preventative stuff.

00:35:24:21 - 00:35:26:10
But

00:35:26:10 - 00:35:27:07
in America,

00:35:27:07 - 00:35:29:14
you know, health care is for the rich.

00:35:29:14 - 00:35:32:18
And in Italy, it's not like that.

00:35:32:18 - 00:35:35:02
So that's, you know, that's really nice.

00:35:35:02 - 00:35:36:11
And they really value

00:35:36:11 - 00:35:37:11
elderly people there.

00:35:37:11 - 00:35:39:16
And I love that part of their culture.

00:35:39:16 - 00:35:41:03
But it's it's

00:35:41:03 - 00:35:42:01
not as easy

00:35:42:01 - 00:35:42:20
as you would think

00:35:42:20 - 00:35:46:06
it would be to just buy that €1 house

00:35:46:08 - 00:35:47:12
and move over there

00:35:47:12 - 00:35:49:09
and live your under the Tuscan sun.

00:35:49:09 - 00:35:51:17
Dream.

00:35:51:17 - 00:35:53:24
We we just saw part of that movie

00:35:53:24 - 00:35:55:18
the other night. I fell asleep before.

00:35:55:18 - 00:35:56:06
I was like,

00:35:56:06 - 00:35:58:21
I don't know if I've ever seen this, but

00:35:58:21 - 00:35:59:17
I was thinking of you,

00:35:59:17 - 00:36:00:20
I was like,

00:36:00:20 - 00:36:03:17
yeah, We looked at a house actually

00:36:03:17 - 00:36:05:06
behind my father in law's house

00:36:05:06 - 00:36:07:02
that's been for sale for 30 years.

00:36:07:02 - 00:36:07:22
Okay?

00:36:07:22 - 00:36:10:11
Nobody is nobody looked at it, right?

00:36:10:11 - 00:36:10:20
Right.

00:36:10:20 - 00:36:12:09
So this is just like sums up

00:36:12:09 - 00:36:13:18
Italian culture.

00:36:13:18 - 00:36:15:09
So this is a small village, right?

00:36:15:09 - 00:36:16:22
So word gets out

00:36:16:22 - 00:36:17:12
that we're coming

00:36:17:12 - 00:36:18:01
When they know

00:36:18:01 - 00:36:19:02
when we're coming to visit,

00:36:19:02 - 00:36:19:21
there's only like 100

00:36:19:21 - 00:36:22:09
people that live there. So

00:36:22:11 - 00:36:24:16
then they found out

00:36:24:16 - 00:36:26:08
that we wanted to look at the house.

00:36:26:08 - 00:36:27:14
Okay.

00:36:27:14 - 00:36:30:08
And when they found that out,

00:36:30:08 - 00:36:35:04
they raised the price like $130,000.

00:36:35:06 - 00:36:36:06
And then they decided

00:36:36:06 - 00:36:38:00
they were going to have like

00:36:38:00 - 00:36:39:23
an auction for it,

00:36:39:23 - 00:36:42:01
you know, maybe drum up some bids.

00:36:42:01 - 00:36:44:05
And so

00:36:44:05 - 00:36:46:15
we went looked at it, and

00:36:46:15 - 00:36:49:00
then they ultimately the mayor decided

00:36:49:00 - 00:36:50:15
that he was going to sell it.

00:36:50:15 - 00:36:54:00
It went from being like €30000 to €186000

00:36:54:00 - 00:36:54:17
because he wanted

00:36:54:17 - 00:36:56:16
to pave a road in the village.

00:36:56:16 - 00:36:58:00
So we bought a house

00:36:58:00 - 00:36:58:23
he could pave the road.

00:36:58:23 - 00:37:00:05
And I

00:37:00:05 - 00:37:00:12
you know,

00:37:00:12 - 00:37:01:21
these these rich Americans,

00:37:01:21 - 00:37:02:22
surely they will

00:37:02:22 - 00:37:04:13
just write us a check for this.

00:37:04:13 - 00:37:05:18
And so we just laughed

00:37:05:18 - 00:37:06:13
and laughed and laughed.

00:37:06:13 - 00:37:07:22
And the house still sits there

00:37:07:22 - 00:37:08:21
and it all sat there

00:37:08:21 - 00:37:10:03
probably for another 30 years

00:37:10:03 - 00:37:11:00
that nobody will buy.

00:37:11:00 - 00:37:14:22
Have they had the auction yet?.

00:37:14:24 - 00:37:15:08
They did.

00:37:15:08 - 00:37:17:07
They weren't even able to get enough

00:37:17:07 - 00:37:18:24
people to do an auction.

00:37:19:01 - 00:37:20:00
Okay.

00:37:20:00 - 00:37:20:11
They just

00:37:20:11 - 00:37:21:03
told us

00:37:21:03 - 00:37:22:07
that thinking

00:37:22:07 - 00:37:25:16
that we would be dumb enough to like,

00:37:25:18 - 00:37:26:12
write this too,

00:37:26:12 - 00:37:28:01
because it's like a huge

00:37:28:01 - 00:37:29:13
500,000 square foot home

00:37:29:13 - 00:37:30:14
with beautiful grounds

00:37:30:14 - 00:37:33:10
looking out to the scenery for $130,000.

00:37:33:10 - 00:37:34:20
So like, Oh, that'll be fine.

00:37:34:20 - 00:37:35:14
They'll just pay for it.

00:37:35:14 - 00:37:36:18
But no,

00:37:36:18 - 00:37:37:19
because we could have gotten it

00:37:37:19 - 00:37:39:08
for 30 grand. Right.

00:37:39:08 - 00:37:40:03
And you know what it's

00:37:40:03 - 00:37:41:18
going to take to get it done.

00:37:41:18 - 00:37:43:10
And the reason that you can do

00:37:43:10 - 00:37:45:12
that is because Pops

00:37:45:12 - 00:37:46:15
your father in law lives

00:37:46:15 - 00:37:47:01
right down the road.

00:37:47:01 - 00:37:48:15
You know, he'd be there.

00:37:48:15 - 00:37:51:08
And it wasn't like

00:37:51:08 - 00:37:53:00
we have an infrastructure there.

00:37:53:00 - 00:37:54:06
We have people that we trust.

00:37:54:06 - 00:37:55:18
When we went to look at the house,

00:37:55:18 - 00:37:56:11
we took

00:37:56:11 - 00:37:58:07
we, the engineer

00:37:58:07 - 00:37:59:24
Pop's best friend, is a contractor.

00:37:59:24 - 00:38:01:02
He did all the work at Pop's house.

00:38:01:02 - 00:38:02:03
So we took him,

00:38:02:03 - 00:38:04:00
you know, people that we could trust.

00:38:04:00 - 00:38:06:17
And if we buy outside of that village,

00:38:06:17 - 00:38:08:24
we will take those people with us

00:38:08:24 - 00:38:09:13
to make sure

00:38:09:13 - 00:38:11:05
that we're not getting ripped off.

00:38:11:05 - 00:38:13:14
And I mean, my husband fluent in Italian,

00:38:13:14 - 00:38:15:06
but still, you know,

00:38:15:06 - 00:38:16:05
we're still Americans.

00:38:16:05 - 00:38:18:00
We have that American sensibility.

00:38:18:00 - 00:38:20:00
I think anywhere you go outside the U.S.,

00:38:20:00 - 00:38:21:13
you just have to be really careful

00:38:21:13 - 00:38:24:21
about living that expat dream, you know?

00:38:24:23 - 00:38:25:14
And then also,

00:38:25:14 - 00:38:26:07
I would say

00:38:26:07 - 00:38:27:13
keep your citizenship

00:38:27:13 - 00:38:29:11
in America, because,

00:38:29:11 - 00:38:32:22
you know, if you need something like

00:38:32:24 - 00:38:36:09
it's not I mean, it's the first world,

00:38:36:09 - 00:38:37:11
but it's sort of like I call it

00:38:37:11 - 00:38:40:01
like 1.5 maybe, you know.

00:38:40:01 - 00:38:41:02
Yeah.

00:38:41:02 - 00:38:43:10
Because modern conveniences, like you're

00:38:43:10 - 00:38:44:14
just not popping out

00:38:44:14 - 00:38:48:12
to the target for something ever.

00:38:48:14 - 00:38:49:09
There is there.

00:38:49:09 - 00:38:51:16
Isn't that so.

00:38:51:16 - 00:38:52:07
You know,

00:38:52:07 - 00:38:54:08
they're just now getting Amazon

00:38:54:08 - 00:38:55:06
like my father in law

00:38:55:06 - 00:38:56:18
can just now get

00:38:56:18 - 00:39:02:18
delivered to his house ...

00:39:02:21 - 00:39:04:03
Well, they.

00:39:04:03 - 00:39:05:04
I know, I know.

00:39:05:04 - 00:39:06:23
It's like when you need something

00:39:06:23 - 00:39:07:22
now like vitamins,

00:39:07:22 - 00:39:09:14
we have to buy the whole village

00:39:09:14 - 00:39:10:22
stuff all the time, you know,

00:39:10:22 - 00:39:13:06
because you can't really get like

00:39:13:06 - 00:39:14:10
one of the things that they love

00:39:14:10 - 00:39:15:17
for some reasons, like name brand,

00:39:15:17 - 00:39:17:22
Advil and Tylenol. Okay.

00:39:17:22 - 00:39:18:11
Just getting that

00:39:18:11 - 00:39:19:24
acetaminophen, ibuprofen,

00:39:19:24 - 00:39:21:00
and you're not

00:39:21:00 - 00:39:23:06
getting anything name brand,

00:39:23:08 - 00:39:24:06
no matter how many

00:39:24:06 - 00:39:27:06
times I've tried in my life to explain

00:39:27:09 - 00:39:28:22
that that acetaminophen

00:39:28:22 - 00:39:31:17
and that Advil are made by the same child

00:39:31:17 - 00:39:33:00
in an Indonesian factory,

00:39:33:00 - 00:39:35:17
one of them gets stamped Advil,

00:39:35:17 - 00:39:38:24
one of them gets stamped ibuprofen.

00:39:39:01 - 00:39:40:08
They get put in different bottles.

00:39:40:08 - 00:39:41:17
But like my mother in law

00:39:41:17 - 00:39:42:19
never would believe it.

00:39:42:19 - 00:39:44:13
She always thought that the name brand

00:39:44:13 - 00:39:45:21
was better. Right?

00:39:45:21 - 00:39:49:02
And so we send them name brand

00:39:49:04 - 00:39:50:04
vitamins, name brand,

00:39:50:04 - 00:39:51:20
Tylenol, name brand, Advil.

00:39:51:20 - 00:39:53:17
Through Amazon, and they love it.

00:39:53:17 - 00:39:55:15
It's like it's amazing.

00:39:55:15 - 00:39:57:17
Yes, it's amazing. Awesome.

00:39:57:17 - 00:39:58:04
I love that.

00:39:58:04 - 00:40:00:16
Well, of course,

00:40:00:16 - 00:40:03:10
I'll be visting I'm I'm

00:40:03:10 - 00:40:05:17
certain that you and JJ will overcome

00:40:05:17 - 00:40:06:23
all the obstacles.

00:40:06:23 - 00:40:07:10
Yes.

00:40:07:10 - 00:40:10:07
It's a lovely place for me to come visit.

00:40:10:07 - 00:40:11:06
Absolutely.

00:40:11:06 - 00:40:12:17
Absolutely. Absolutely.

00:40:12:17 - 00:40:12:22
Yeah.

00:40:12:22 - 00:40:15:18
He'll be there for a month in October.

00:40:15:18 - 00:40:16:22
I'm so jealous of that

00:40:16:22 - 00:40:18:23
because I actually tried

00:40:18:23 - 00:40:19:17
in the spring

00:40:19:17 - 00:40:23:13
to go for a month and I tried to work

00:40:23:15 - 00:40:25:05
while I was there.

00:40:25:05 - 00:40:28:04
And I got to tell you, it's not as great

00:40:28:04 - 00:40:30:02
as I thought it was going to be.

00:40:30:04 - 00:40:32:07
Yeah, on the internet.

00:40:32:07 - 00:40:34:14
But yeah, not the time.

00:40:34:14 - 00:40:38:04
The time change was really hard to.

00:40:38:06 - 00:40:40:13
And so that that sort of has changed

00:40:40:13 - 00:40:41:03
the way I've thought

00:40:41:03 - 00:40:43:08
about the future, too, because,

00:40:43:08 - 00:40:43:14
you know,

00:40:43:14 - 00:40:44:24
if I want to keep a part

00:40:44:24 - 00:40:48:02
time job or something, you know, nowadays

00:40:48:02 - 00:40:51:15
you can do work all over the world.

00:40:51:17 - 00:40:53:11
But it was a little bit different

00:40:53:11 - 00:40:55:16
because of the time change,

00:40:55:16 - 00:40:58:16
an afternoon meeting would be at 11 p.m..

00:40:58:16 - 00:40:59:17
They there, you know,

00:40:59:17 - 00:41:01:24
and that was just it's a no.

00:41:01:24 - 00:41:03:20
I know everyone was having fun

00:41:03:20 - 00:41:04:22
and I thought, well,

00:41:04:22 - 00:41:05:19
I shouldn’t be working,

00:41:05:19 - 00:41:07:22
I should be having fun. Yeah.

00:41:07:22 - 00:41:08:08
Yeah.

00:41:08:08 - 00:41:09:08
So yeah.

00:41:09:08 - 00:41:09:21
So I don't,

00:41:09:21 - 00:41:10:03
I don't,

00:41:10:03 - 00:41:11:07
I'm not going to try that again

00:41:11:07 - 00:41:11:19
in the fall.

00:41:11:19 - 00:41:14:08
I'm just going to take a vacation, nice.

00:41:14:08 - 00:41:15:17
Yay!

00:41:15:17 - 00:41:17:15
I know you actually had to coach me

00:41:17:15 - 00:41:19:00
because I was going to, like,

00:41:19:00 - 00:41:20:00
take all my computer

00:41:20:00 - 00:41:21:15
set up and like an extra monitor

00:41:21:15 - 00:41:23:06
and my speaker and all these things,

00:41:23:06 - 00:41:26:18
and you said, No, don't do that.

00:41:26:20 - 00:41:28:21
Just it'll be okay.

00:41:28:21 - 00:41:31:02
Yay! And it was.

00:41:31:02 - 00:41:32:05
It was fine.

00:41:32:05 - 00:41:34:20
Yeah. Yay!

00:41:34:20 - 00:41:36:17
Okay. This has been super fun.

00:41:36:17 - 00:41:38:09
Yes, it's been great.

00:41:38:09 - 00:41:41:24
I do have one more question.

00:41:42:01 - 00:41:44:01
You have

00:41:44:01 - 00:41:47:01
ushered a lot of doctors through

00:41:47:03 - 00:41:48:03
hospitalist

00:41:48:03 - 00:41:50:03
and then through primary care.

00:41:50:03 - 00:41:51:03
And like you,

00:41:51:03 - 00:41:52:06
you said earlier,

00:41:52:06 - 00:41:53:13
I can’t remember how many reviews as

00:41:53:13 - 00:41:53:21
they were.

00:41:53:21 - 00:41:55:00
But like taking care of like,

00:41:55:00 - 00:41:58:00
that, is like your thing very,

00:41:58:03 - 00:42:00:20
very much mentor and help.

00:42:00:20 - 00:42:04:14
And what advice do you have for

00:42:04:16 - 00:42:05:21
physicians, new or old,

00:42:05:21 - 00:42:06:20
because you've had

00:42:06:20 - 00:42:07:14
people on the variety

00:42:07:14 - 00:42:09:16
of the spectrum, and

00:42:09:16 - 00:42:13:23
I'm curious what wisdom you have for us.

00:42:14:00 - 00:42:15:14
I was thinking, you know,

00:42:15:14 - 00:42:19:02
I think that oftentimes

00:42:19:04 - 00:42:21:03
I was talking to a old provider

00:42:21:03 - 00:42:22:15
that I used to manage,

00:42:22:15 - 00:42:24:24
and she was telling me that,

00:42:24:24 - 00:42:28:08
you know, her practice manager well,

00:42:28:10 - 00:42:29:14
she was sending emails

00:42:29:14 - 00:42:31:13
about the call schedule changes

00:42:31:13 - 00:42:32:22
and doing these things,

00:42:32:22 - 00:42:34:12
and it was really stressing her out.

00:42:34:12 - 00:42:35:09
And I just stopped her

00:42:35:09 - 00:42:36:06
and I said,

00:42:36:06 - 00:42:38:09
You know, you're a doctor, right?

00:42:38:09 - 00:42:39:11
You diagnose

00:42:39:11 - 00:42:41:05
and treat medical conditions.

00:42:41:05 - 00:42:43:17
That's your job, right?

00:42:43:17 - 00:42:46:00
A practice manager can send an email,

00:42:46:00 - 00:42:47:03
the practice manager

00:42:47:03 - 00:42:48:14
can change the call schedule.

00:42:48:14 - 00:42:49:04
Don't

00:42:49:04 - 00:42:51:11
let your role be confused

00:42:51:11 - 00:42:53:08
with running a practice.

00:42:53:08 - 00:42:54:18
Don't you know?

00:42:54:18 - 00:42:56:18
Let give the administrators

00:42:56:18 - 00:42:59:12
the space to do what they need to do

00:42:59:12 - 00:43:01:11
and don't let them rope you

00:43:01:11 - 00:43:03:07
into doing things that aren’t

00:43:03:07 - 00:43:04:13
patient care related

00:43:04:13 - 00:43:05:21
unless you really want to,

00:43:05:21 - 00:43:06:24
unless you're really passionate

00:43:06:24 - 00:43:08:10
about that side of it.

00:43:08:10 - 00:43:13:02
I think nowadays so many

00:43:13:04 - 00:43:15:01
health care organizations

00:43:15:01 - 00:43:15:11
and health care

00:43:15:11 - 00:43:17:01
systems want doctors

00:43:17:01 - 00:43:19:10
to have MBAs as well.

00:43:19:10 - 00:43:20:24
I mean, what's that

00:43:20:24 - 00:43:21:15
is like you’re

00:43:21:15 - 00:43:23:10
a doctor be a doctor,

00:43:23:10 - 00:43:25:12
you know, And conversely,

00:43:25:12 - 00:43:29:02
these physicians who go to medical school

00:43:29:08 - 00:43:30:18
never practice medicine.

00:43:30:18 - 00:43:31:06
And then

00:43:31:06 - 00:43:35:00
just become an administrator like,

00:43:35:02 - 00:43:37:16
oh, know, well, I don't know how.

00:43:37:16 - 00:43:39:14
Yeah, yeah.

00:43:39:14 - 00:43:40:04
I mean, that's

00:43:40:04 - 00:43:41:13
the other advice that I have

00:43:41:13 - 00:43:43:12
when I think about my role

00:43:43:12 - 00:43:44:17
as an administrator versus

00:43:44:17 - 00:43:46:24
what I can offer

00:43:46:24 - 00:43:48:21
providers, physicians,

00:43:48:21 - 00:43:52:16
is that the lens in which administrators

00:43:52:16 - 00:43:54:02
look at health

00:43:54:02 - 00:43:56:13
care is not the same lens that you have.

00:43:56:13 - 00:43:58:04
You know,

00:43:58:04 - 00:44:00:20
and I make a good administrator

00:44:00:20 - 00:44:03:18
because I was a clinical human being.

00:44:03:18 - 00:44:07:08
I have done CPR on humans

00:44:07:08 - 00:44:08:22
and I've had a colostomy bag

00:44:08:22 - 00:44:11:01
explode on my body and,

00:44:11:01 - 00:44:11:09
you know,

00:44:11:09 - 00:44:12:22
like people thrown up on me

00:44:12:22 - 00:44:15:08
and I've seen bleeding and all the things

00:44:15:08 - 00:44:16:19
and I've held people while they died

00:44:16:19 - 00:44:19:01
and all of those things that you do

00:44:19:01 - 00:44:22:23
as a clinician that impart that human

00:44:23:00 - 00:44:24:05
aspect to it,

00:44:24:05 - 00:44:24:21
you know,

00:44:24:21 - 00:44:26:22
and I think a lot of times

00:44:26:22 - 00:44:29:00
I fail to realize

00:44:29:00 - 00:44:30:09
that some of my counterparts

00:44:30:09 - 00:44:33:02
that I sit in meetings with,

00:44:33:02 - 00:44:34:20
they've never had that experience

00:44:34:20 - 00:44:37:16
because they have an MBA or MHA

00:44:37:16 - 00:44:39:14
or an economics degree.

00:44:39:14 - 00:44:41:12
And that's very valuable.

00:44:41:12 - 00:44:42:05
But that's a

00:44:42:05 - 00:44:43:05
they look at the world

00:44:43:05 - 00:44:44:15
through different glasses

00:44:44:15 - 00:44:46:01
than we do, right?

00:44:46:01 - 00:44:47:07
It's just a different thing.

00:44:47:07 - 00:44:48:04
And I think that

00:44:48:04 - 00:44:49:24
recognizing that will

00:44:49:24 - 00:44:52:04
cut down on some of the frustration and

00:44:52:04 - 00:44:53:04
and heartache

00:44:53:04 - 00:44:53:22
that you get

00:44:53:22 - 00:44:55:17
when you work in a health care system,

00:44:55:17 - 00:44:57:23
because you're not going to understand

00:44:57:23 - 00:44:59:06
why these decisions

00:44:59:06 - 00:45:00:20
are being made sometimes

00:45:00:20 - 00:45:02:12
because they are going to appear

00:45:02:12 - 00:45:03:23
to be stupid

00:45:03:23 - 00:45:05:21
decisions or decisions

00:45:05:21 - 00:45:08:17
that you as a clinician wouldn't make.

00:45:08:17 - 00:45:11:11
But again, they've got a different lens

00:45:11:11 - 00:45:12:14
that they're looking through

00:45:12:14 - 00:45:15:14
and both lenses are valuable right

00:45:15:18 - 00:45:17:10
I would just

00:45:17:10 - 00:45:20:09
tell, especially new docs to be sort of,

00:45:20:09 - 00:45:23:03
you know, aware of the political fray

00:45:23:03 - 00:45:24:14
that goes on inside

00:45:24:14 - 00:45:26:10
a health care organization

00:45:26:10 - 00:45:28:09
and maybe try to avoid it

00:45:28:09 - 00:45:30:08
as much as humanly possible.

00:45:30:08 - 00:45:32:21
Unless you love politics.

00:45:32:21 - 00:45:33:11
Right.

00:45:33:11 - 00:45:33:17
You know,

00:45:33:17 - 00:45:35:18
my daddy used to say all the time like,

00:45:35:18 - 00:45:37:04
I didn't understand it when I was a kid,

00:45:37:04 - 00:45:40:04
but my dad would say I got to go politic.

00:45:40:07 - 00:45:41:09
He was a pediatrician,

00:45:41:09 - 00:45:43:16
in a rural area, right?

00:45:43:16 - 00:45:44:18
I got to politic it.

00:45:44:18 - 00:45:45:14
And I'm like, politic it,

00:45:45:14 - 00:45:46:05
you like,

00:45:46:05 - 00:45:47:17
take care of strep throat and stuff.

00:45:47:17 - 00:45:48:16
Like, I didn't get it

00:45:48:16 - 00:45:50:13
because I was a child.

00:45:50:15 - 00:45:52:04
But now, yeah.

00:45:52:04 - 00:45:53:00
And now,

00:45:53:00 - 00:45:55:19
now I understand that you've got to,

00:45:55:19 - 00:45:56:23
you know, do

00:45:56:23 - 00:45:57:12
those things

00:45:57:12 - 00:45:59:02
and be involved in politics side.

00:45:59:02 - 00:46:01:18
If you want to push a program forward

00:46:01:18 - 00:46:03:08
or if you want to start a program.

00:46:03:08 - 00:46:05:07
But if you want to be a clinician

00:46:05:07 - 00:46:07:06
that takes care of human beings,

00:46:07:06 - 00:46:09:05
stay out of that fray.

00:46:09:05 - 00:46:10:13
You know,

00:46:10:13 - 00:46:12:05
it's for some people for sure,

00:46:12:05 - 00:46:14:18
but it's not is not for everyone.

00:46:14:18 - 00:46:16:19
And you became a doctor for a reason.

00:46:16:19 - 00:46:17:24
I mean,

00:46:17:24 - 00:46:21:20
getting pulled into that political realm,

00:46:21:22 - 00:46:23:21
unless you have aspirations

00:46:23:21 - 00:46:25:17
to be a chief medical officer

00:46:25:17 - 00:46:27:17
or to work in administration

00:46:27:17 - 00:46:28:12
or like you said,

00:46:28:12 - 00:46:30:21
some people actually really enjoy

00:46:30:21 - 00:46:32:06
all that politicking.

00:46:32:06 - 00:46:35:21
Yeah, but I totally agree with you

00:46:35:23 - 00:46:37:18
that there

00:46:37:18 - 00:46:39:08
I mean, and that is not just health care.

00:46:39:08 - 00:46:42:14
Every organization is is full of politics

00:46:42:15 - 00:46:44:04
I know I can only speak to this

00:46:44:04 - 00:46:44:24
but literally

00:46:44:24 - 00:46:46:18
like like that's what they are

00:46:46:18 - 00:46:49:17
and so many

00:46:49:19 - 00:46:52:06
physicians I mean people just don't

00:46:52:06 - 00:46:53:24
look they've come through medical school

00:46:53:24 - 00:46:55:01
and then residency

00:46:55:01 - 00:46:56:19
and like all this very sort of narrow,

00:46:56:19 - 00:46:57:13
very difficult

00:46:57:13 - 00:46:58:04
but narrow path

00:46:58:04 - 00:46:59:24
that we don’t realize

00:46:59:24 - 00:47:01:24
all this is going around.

00:47:01:24 - 00:47:03:20
And so, like,

00:47:03:20 - 00:47:05:11
they think that they can just go in

00:47:05:11 - 00:47:07:13
and like make a change or whatever,

00:47:07:13 - 00:47:09:05
and you don't realize that.

00:47:09:05 - 00:47:09:16
Oh, it's

00:47:09:16 - 00:47:13:19
actually that's Poly's department and

00:47:13:21 - 00:47:15:23
so and that's not just in you’re

00:47:15:23 - 00:47:16:12
I mean,

00:47:16:12 - 00:47:18:00
I also think so

00:47:18:00 - 00:47:21:00
I think there's a, you know, naivete

00:47:21:01 - 00:47:22:01
when you're starting

00:47:22:01 - 00:47:23:17
that and people don't realize

00:47:23:17 - 00:47:25:03
and I think a lot of times

00:47:25:03 - 00:47:26:17
the first thing is to think, oh,

00:47:26:17 - 00:47:29:15
my organization is

00:47:29:15 - 00:47:31:22
corrupt or dysfunctional or whatever.

00:47:31:22 - 00:47:32:19
No, no, no.

00:47:32:19 - 00:47:34:19
This is any organization.

00:47:34:19 - 00:47:36:00
That's right.

00:47:36:00 - 00:47:37:16
It is what it is.

00:47:37:16 - 00:47:39:11
Human beings are fallible,

00:47:39:11 - 00:47:42:04
so they have motivations

00:47:42:04 - 00:47:44:06
that you have no idea about. Right.

00:47:44:06 - 00:47:46:07
It's all this emotional stuff.

00:47:46:07 - 00:47:47:06
And if you don't

00:47:47:06 - 00:47:48:10
have I coach,

00:47:48:10 - 00:47:51:10
I love actually to coach people on this

00:47:51:11 - 00:47:53:08
to help people navigate this

00:47:53:08 - 00:47:54:09
in other systems.

00:47:54:09 - 00:47:56:09
I mean, I just love it because

00:47:56:09 - 00:47:57:12
once you start

00:47:57:12 - 00:47:58:18
to learn these things, like

00:47:58:18 - 00:48:01:11
to figure out like, oh, like

00:48:01:13 - 00:48:03:11
this is the priority of this

00:48:03:11 - 00:48:04:04
other person

00:48:04:04 - 00:48:05:10
and this is why

00:48:05:10 - 00:48:07:11
what the written priority is like,

00:48:07:11 - 00:48:09:19
then you can like navigate all this stuff

00:48:09:19 - 00:48:12:04
with more ease.

00:48:12:04 - 00:48:14:12
But like one step back is like it's,

00:48:14:12 - 00:48:15:05
it's everywhere.

00:48:15:05 - 00:48:16:02
There's nothing wrong with it.

00:48:16:02 - 00:48:16:21
It's just like that

00:48:16:21 - 00:48:17:24
is the way the world is,

00:48:17:24 - 00:48:19:13
the way the world works.

00:48:19:13 - 00:48:23:01
The world, not just your where

00:48:23:03 - 00:48:24:02
your institution like

00:48:24:02 - 00:48:25:10
this is the way of the world.

00:48:25:10 - 00:48:29:03
And if you want to get through that stuff

00:48:29:03 - 00:48:29:24
and get anything done,

00:48:29:24 - 00:48:32:00
you got to learn how the world works.

00:48:32:00 - 00:48:32:24
Yeah, you do.

00:48:32:24 - 00:48:34:22
And you have to learn to just,

00:48:34:22 - 00:48:37:11
you know, sit in that room and

00:48:37:11 - 00:48:38:23
think to yourself, I'm

00:48:38:23 - 00:48:41:00
the smartest person in here.

00:48:41:00 - 00:48:42:16
Oh, that's a good one.

00:48:42:16 - 00:48:43:06
Yeah.

00:48:43:06 - 00:48:45:14
I mean, I, I've thought

00:48:45:14 - 00:48:46:23
and I don't I'm not

00:48:46:23 - 00:48:48:08
braggadocious enough to think

00:48:48:08 - 00:48:49:13
that I'm some super genius,

00:48:49:13 - 00:48:53:12
but it's been my experience

00:48:53:12 - 00:48:55:03
that I sit in a lot of rooms

00:48:55:03 - 00:48:56:04
and a lot of c-suites.

00:48:56:04 - 00:48:58:19
And I think to myself, damn it, I'm.

00:48:58:19 - 00:49:01:20
I'm the smartest person here.

00:49:01:22 - 00:49:03:05
That's a little scary.

00:49:03:05 - 00:49:03:20
So just,

00:49:03:20 - 00:49:05:00
you know,

00:49:05:00 - 00:49:07:20
it's not scary you’re very smart.

00:49:07:20 - 00:49:08:23
Yes, yeah, yeah.

00:49:08:23 - 00:49:10:06
But I mean, I'm just saying, like,

00:49:10:06 - 00:49:12:11
it's just it's a helpful reminder

00:49:12:11 - 00:49:14:00
that this,

00:49:14:00 - 00:49:15:06
you know, everything

00:49:15:06 - 00:49:18:22
the politics is just part of the of

00:49:18:24 - 00:49:21:19
of the of the career, you know,

00:49:21:19 - 00:49:25:08
and if you if you hate it, then

00:49:25:10 - 00:49:27:08
stay as far away from it as you can.

00:49:27:08 - 00:49:28:10
Right.

00:49:28:10 - 00:49:30:21
And listen to your administrators

00:49:30:21 - 00:49:32:05
who were once clinicians.

00:49:32:05 - 00:49:33:02
You know they

00:49:33:02 - 00:49:34:05
they typically I'm

00:49:34:05 - 00:49:36:17
not saying they all do, but

00:49:36:17 - 00:49:39:20
most of the best administrators

00:49:39:20 - 00:49:43:16
I've ever known were also clinicians.

00:49:43:18 - 00:49:44:18
And I think

00:49:44:18 - 00:49:46:13
statistically, you know, magnet

00:49:46:13 - 00:49:48:02
hospitals and hospital systems

00:49:48:02 - 00:49:50:14
that are run by nurses

00:49:50:14 - 00:49:52:08
who have a strong clinical

00:49:52:08 - 00:49:53:20
and administrative backgrounds

00:49:53:20 - 00:49:55:21
have better clinical outcomes

00:49:55:21 - 00:49:57:16
because of that care.

00:49:57:16 - 00:49:58:00
You know,

00:49:58:00 - 00:49:59:21
when that whole Lean Six Sigma

00:49:59:21 - 00:50:01:06
thing was so popular,

00:50:01:06 - 00:50:03:01
when everyone had to take it I’m

00:50:03:01 - 00:50:06:18
a green belt, I just that made me mental

00:50:06:23 - 00:50:10:09
that we used a car manufacturing

00:50:10:09 - 00:50:13:10
principle to take care of humans.

00:50:13:10 - 00:50:14:03
That blows

00:50:14:03 - 00:50:14:23
my mind

00:50:14:23 - 00:50:16:11
that that's that someone thought

00:50:16:11 - 00:50:18:16
that that was a fantastic idea.

00:50:18:16 - 00:50:20:01
I mean of course we can look for

00:50:20:01 - 00:50:21:08
inefficiencies in care,

00:50:21:08 - 00:50:24:08
but we don't manufacture people.

00:50:24:10 - 00:50:26:15
These are human beings

00:50:26:15 - 00:50:28:12
that we are taking care of.

00:50:28:12 - 00:50:30:08
And I think as providers,

00:50:30:08 - 00:50:34:16
like you're the ones that have to remind

00:50:34:16 - 00:50:35:08
the rest

00:50:35:08 - 00:50:36:11
of the organization

00:50:36:11 - 00:50:38:18
of that sometimes, right?

00:50:38:18 - 00:50:41:18
That that is so true.

00:50:41:20 - 00:50:43:01
Awesome.

00:50:43:01 - 00:50:44:16
Well, thank you so much.

00:50:44:16 - 00:50:46:04
This was so much fun. This was great.

00:50:46:04 - 00:50:47:03
I had so much fun.

00:50:47:03 - 00:50:48:17
The first guest.

00:50:48:17 - 00:50:50:18
I'm so excited.

00:50:50:18 - 00:50:51:02
Yes.

00:50:51:02 - 00:50:52:19
And you and I will continue

00:50:52:19 - 00:50:53:21
our conversations

00:50:53:21 - 00:50:57:12
over some sparkling wine and cheese.

00:50:57:14 - 00:50:59:00
I love this for us.

00:50:59:00 - 00:51:00:08
Yes, me too.

00:51:00:08 - 00:51:01:21
Okay. See that soon.

00:51:01:21 - 00:51:03:13
And back to work for both of us.

00:51:03:13 - 00:51:04:23
I know thank you again.

00:51:04:23 - 00:51:06:16
I had a great time. This was great.

00:51:07:00 - 00:51:09:07
Thanks so much for joining me today.

00:51:09:07 - 00:51:11:01
If you like this episode,

00:51:11:01 - 00:51:12:04
you're going to love

00:51:12:04 - 00:51:14:05
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00:51:14:05 - 00:51:15:06
Sign up for email

00:51:15:06 - 00:51:17:23
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00:51:17:23 - 00:51:20:04
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00:51:20:04 - 00:51:21:19
called Friday Favorites.

00:51:21:19 - 00:51:23:11
Everyone loves it.

00:51:23:11 - 00:51:25:18
Or if you're ready to get started

00:51:25:18 - 00:51:28:18
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00:51:28:20 - 00:51:30:01
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00:51:30:01 - 00:51:32:01
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00:51:32:01 - 00:51:33:08
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00:51:33:08 - 00:51:35:13
I can't wait to meet you.

00:51:35:13 - 00:51:36:16
You'll find these links

00:51:36:16 - 00:51:39:02
and other resources in the show notes.

00:51:39:02 - 00:51:40:00
See you next week.

Episode 20: From Scrubs to Stethoscopes - A Nurse's Odyssey

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